Sports and Private Equity

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The Celtics are the greatest NBA franchise in history and won another championship in 2024. Last year, a private equity billionaire bought the team. This year, the Celtics claim they don't have enough money to pay for a competitive team and are sending some of their best players away. It's easy to dismiss it as just the realm of billionaires and millionaires, or pretend it's not somehow connected in any way to the "real" things that matter: but could the current state of American sports teach us something about wealth, worker wages, and regulation in the rest of our society?

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Transcript

Anna

00:00:02 - 00:00:44

Hello and welcome to Incorruptible Mass. Our mission here is to help us all transform state politics because we know that we could have a state and a legislature that truly supports the needs of the 7 million of us who live here. And today we are going to be talking about sports and the corporate ownership of sports and the private equity purchase of the Boston Celtics and the trade that happened that shocked everybody. And why all of this is happening. You know, the TL;DR, of course, is late-stage capitalism. But before we do, I'm going to have my illustrious co-hosts introduce themselves today. We will start with Jordan.

Jordan

00:00:44 - 00:00:51

Jordan Burke Powers, he/him, and I am obsessed with sports. So this would be a fun one for me.

Anna

00:00:51 - 00:00:53

And Jonathan.

Jonathan

00:00:54 - 00:01:11

Jonathan Cohn. He and his live in Boston in the South End. They've been active on progressive political, like, issue and electoral campaigns for over a decade. I have never been an avid sports watcher, but always enjoy the intersection with sociological, economic, and political commentary.

Anna

00:01:11 - 00:01:33

And I'm Anna Callahan, she/her, coming at you from Medford, where I'm a city councilor. And I came from a whole family of non-sports watchers. And I also do not watch sports. And I know nothing about sports. So I think, Jonathan, I don't know if I want to speak for you, but for sure my role is going to be to ask all the dumb questions because it's all new for me.

Jonathan

00:01:33 - 00:01:57

In terms of asking like dumb questions, like the like, okay, explain this to me as somebody who doesn't pay attention. But I was thinking about this the other day when 2 friends and I did a like multi-hour, like, this was during COVID but Facebook livestream about the politics of Animal Crossing. And I just like that. Jordan, this is me, Matt Miller, and Zelda.

Jordan

00:01:57 - 00:01:58

Yeah, yeah, I know who exactly it was.

Jonathan

00:01:58 - 00:02:07

Uh, you and Kara probably watched, and I was just like, okay, I know nothing about this, so I'm just playing the one who asks questions.

Anna

00:02:07 - 00:02:19

All right, well, we are, uh, we're gonna dive right in. And the first thing that people want to understand, I'm sure, is what the heck just happened with the Celtics?

Jordan

00:02:20 - 00:03:01

What? Yes. So I think the important thing also, for those of you who aren't sports fans but listen to the politics, this is going to turn back into politics, we promise. So there is a tie-in to the fact that legislators should and could be doing something. But essentially, for those who aren't sports fans, one of the best players, arguably the best player, though arguably, for the Celtics, but one of the 2 best players for the Celtics, Jaylen Brown, was traded to the Philadelphia 76ers for not much, did not get a good trade. And so his contract now goes to the Sixers. And what is important is that the Celtics were recently sold for the most money ever for a team. It was $6.2 billion.

Anna

00:03:01 - 00:03:04

Billion. Billion with a B. I just want to make sure.

Jordan

00:03:04 - 00:03:20

With a B. Yes, with a B. $6.2 billion. And because no person has that money except for maybe Elon Musk, right? But no one actually has that money because even he doesn't have real money. He has money he can leverage for value, right? So no one has that money.

Jonathan

00:03:20 - 00:03:20

Yeah.

Jordan

00:03:20 - 00:04:12

Um, they go to the banks to ask to backfill for that money. So they borrowed to pay for that sub, almost the entire share of that money. And what does private equity do? Private equity buys things it can't afford on high— um, on— it gets big loans to pay for it, and then it sells off the components to pay back that loan It makes, it makes the product worse, terrible, crappier, and as, and make it as wor— as bad as people will accept so that it can make the most money to pay back what it owes and also to extract money, to take money out of the system to make themselves rich. So things like, you know, Panera Bread used to be good. It's now terrible. It got bought by private equity. Joann Fabrics was doing fine as a business. It got sold to private equity. They literally sold off all the pieces, including the thing that was actually most valuable for it, which was its property.

Anna

00:04:12 - 00:04:12

Yeah.

Jordan

00:04:15 - 00:05:32

and now enclosed Joann Fabrics, even though people loved it. It was a great place for crafting, right? Private equity does take— what? Toys R Us. Yep. Similarly, Toys R Us, right? So it takes brands, it figures out what it can extract for money, and then it, and then it tries to make as much profit both to pay back the big loans and also to make profit for themselves. So what happens when you do that to a sports team? You literally sell the contract, the money that you owe And that is guaranteed money. It means they had to pay him one of the top salaries in the league. So they sold that off, as private equity always does, Mm-hmm. for basically pennies so that they could pay somebody. And because it's all contracts, the people they would bring in would be rookies. So they buy league things, would get paid less money. So you literally— this is what private equity does, right? It finds places that can save money and, and do the thing. So they, so they have said basically— so basically what they've committed to The Celtics ownership is committed to not winning, but to making— but to doing well enough that people will still buy tickets and watch it. Right. So they want to do just enough to not make you mad. Right. But just— and keep giving them money, but not— but not enough to win, which would require them to pay players who are good.

Anna

00:05:32 - 00:05:56

And in some ways, a sports team in any city is a monopoly, right? I mean, we don't have another basketball team. We have the Celtics. That's our basketball team. And so it's not like you can decide, well, now I'm just going to be, you know, I'm going to pick some other sports team that's going to be my home team. Like, you can't. There is no option. So they really have us over a barrel.

Jonathan

00:05:56 - 00:06:53

Can I tag in with that? So this is one thing that we were talking before. I was going to tee up as a question, Jordan. So we have this case where a private equity firm bought the Celtics. And then to put as a background to that, what's always kind of interesting to me And this tags in with what Anna was noting, where sports teams effectively function as municipal monopolies over professional sports in a specific category. They are strongly identified with the city. They are not owned by the city, but they inspire city loyalty by being the one that is kind of hosted home team in that city. Who owned the Celtics before? One, I plead ignorance. I do not know the answer to that question. I will not win at Celtics trivia if that were to ever happen. And 2, who are the common owners or the common owners or the positive uncommon owners in other places?

Anna

00:06:53 - 00:06:57

Sorry, and I don't know what common owners and positive common— I don't know what those terms are.

Jonathan

00:06:57 - 00:07:22

I said common owners, who tends to be the owner? For the example of it's typically just one rich guy is what I mean by common, as in high frequency. And then positive uncommon, meaning the players own the team or the city owns the team, or cases like that that are rare cases, but they're like, oh, isn't this a better model, less capitalist model?

Anna

00:07:22 - 00:07:23

Nice.

Jonathan

00:07:23 - 00:07:26

Thank you for making that thing worse then.

Jordan

00:07:29 - 00:07:39

Okay, so I want to correct also, it seems that it was only $6.1 billion. $6.2 billion.

Anna

00:07:39 - 00:07:41

You're fired. That is correct.

Jonathan

00:07:41 - 00:07:48

You were spreading misinformation on the podcast, Jordan.

Jordan

00:07:48 - 00:08:22

So let's back up and say most historically, teams were owned by a person. They were owned by a person, a family. And the reason they were owned by a family is because they were bad investments. You, you threw money in, and the people who gave you money were people who showed up, right, in person. So you had to have some sort of entertainment and do the things. And then radio changed that to a lesser extent, although radio was free. And then, but you could sell some advertising, you can get some more people in, right? So that changes a little bit. And so teams start to get more money, start to grow. And then TV revolutionizes this.

Anna

00:08:22 - 00:08:23

Mm-hmm.

Jordan

00:08:23 - 00:10:11

So TV allows people to package deals and sell advertising and make in big money. And then what the— and then once TV starts to work, that's some money that's big. And so teams start to grow. And that's when you— and you get unions for the players because the players then want a share of that. They want the ability to move around. They want some more rights. So unionization starts to happen to get some of that money, um, because otherwise the owners would keep as much of it as possible. The other thing to remember is that most places there's only 30 or so teams, so they have an interest in colluding together to ensure that players aren't paid. Right. Like they both— but that was always broken apart because people, especially as you had more people owning teams, they saw it as like a— like rich people were like, I own this thing and it wins. And so they wanted to win. Right. There was sort of these cross purposes, right? They could work together to collude to keep profits down, but also they had a personal interest to win. And so that personal interest to win meant that they also formed together to create associations, NBA, MLB, right, the things so that they would both keep some control on prices, on how much they were paying people, but also they would still try to win. So traditionally they were trying to win and they were using the revenue generated from television and a little bit from sales in the stadiums to make money. Eventually they started to figure out in America that they didn't have to pay for stadiums, that states would start to pay for stadiums because they're monopolies in those places. And so most, for example, most Major League Baseball teams don't make money. They, in fact, their only money is the money that the public gave them by purchasing a stadium and building it for them. And so the entire value of the team is actually the stadium that the public paid for. So the public gave them their value, which is a whole other Like podcasts that we could talk about.

Anna

00:10:11 - 00:10:12

Exactly.

Jordan

00:10:12 - 00:11:06

Um, but, um, essentially, um, the, the, um, the teams started to— the— but the teams started to grow and grow, and the, and the money from TV and other deals continued to get exponential, especially as it went into international markets and other places. And so no longer is it the case that an individual person can own a team. And it's actually illegal in most of the leagues for there not to be a clear owner. But they have been waiving those rules, especially in the NBA, and allowing private equity, which is a group of people together, to start to own teams. This happened first in soccer or international football and then started to come to America and all these other places. And teams started to buy up and then people start to own, right? They would sell off shares, but there'd still be a majority person. But then increasingly there isn't a majority person who owns it, right? Like 50%.

Anna

00:11:06 - 00:11:09

Who makes decisions if there's no majority Like, how does that work?

Jordan

00:11:09 - 00:11:47

So one person has a majority share. Yeah. And they have a manager, but it'll be— but rather than 51%, it might be 35% or 29%. Right. So they'll have the most shares, but not a majority. So you're just seeing— you're seeing increasingly— you're seeing increasingly— you're seeing increasingly the teams no longer owned by a person. And there's actually a really good book that discussed this, that actually before the Jaylen Brown trade, we were going to talk about this. because it's really important, is Michael Schur and— Michael Schur, who did— who does TV. He's a producer. The Good Place is one of my favorite shows. He did that show.

Anna

00:11:47 - 00:11:48

Ooh, I love that show.

Jordan

00:11:48 - 00:13:38

And Joe Posensky, who is a sportswriter, wrote a book called Big Fan. And it's basically a love story to fans because they're like, fandom is going to die because these people— it's no longer the case that there is an owner who cares about winning. who owns a team who wants to win for the place that they're from or own the city from. You're increasingly getting a group of people who only care about more money they can make, and they don't— and they win when the league signs big TV deals, not when their individual teams win. And so increasingly, they're looking at fans not as the people they serve to give value to, but rather people they can extract money from. For their private equity. So you're seeing the cost of food go up, the cost of alcohol go up, the cost of tickets go up. Um, they will do every— they'll put, you know, they'll— you'll get a ticket for $50, but then you'll get $100 in fees for that ticket. They'll get, you know, your parking is unavailable, and you'll get, you know, they'll just pull money from you to figure out how they can pull money. So no longer do they care about your experience. And most importantly, I think, for fans because most people can't afford to go to games, um, they are no longer available to watch, which I think is the other— which is the part that's actually important for legislators, is that Tammy Baldwin has a bill about this. Because it used to be that it was free on TV, on terrestrial TV, NBC, ABC, CBS. You could just get an antenna and get it free to watch your team play. And increasingly they are selling it off to Netflix, to Amazon, to Peacock but not NBC. And so you have to pay for a service to then watch these teams play. And so they're— that's another way that they're extracting money from you for something that used to be free for you to enjoy on their time.

Anna

00:13:38 - 00:14:02

I'm curious about— I got 2 things. One, I want Jonathan's second half of his question answered about like what would be a different, better form of ownership. I want that one. But I also want to hear about Tammy Baldwin's bill. What is the stage of this bill? What does it say? All of those things, because that's Massachusetts, right? What could she or could any legislator be doing better?

Jonathan

00:14:02 - 00:14:03

Wisconsin.

Anna

00:14:03 - 00:14:18

I'm so sorry. Yes, great. What could we do here in Massachusetts? Not only what ownership model would be better, but what regulation or legislation would be good? Those are my 2 questions.

Jordan

00:14:19 - 00:16:00

So the first thing is that Steve Pagliuca, he owned the Celtics and he famously tried to run for office because he was such a big deal for delivering championships to the thing. So you could own a team and be popular, and he sold the team. So the act is called For the Fans Act. And I think this is important because I think progressives should care about people being happy and people like sports. And they enjoy it. It's a way for people to get time off and enjoy things. And so that getting gobbled up like other things are getting gobbled up is both about late-stage capitalism and how people, they're trying to make our lives miserable. But also, I think it's something we could care about and win elections. People care about this. We could care. So her, so her For the Fans Act are basically, she, she calculated how much it would cost for Wisconsinites to enjoy their teams. to watch their teams and how much, and it's thousands of dollars a year to enjoy their teams. And so she has, she has a bill to make it illegal to, to, to black out local teams, which means not available on terrestrial, and also to slash streaming costs to say like, you cannot— if you— to make it a set amount that you can spend to watch your local team. So it's a way to bring back some of the money that used to be. And the important thing to note is that This isn't a free-for-all. This is all— these leagues are heavily— they are monopolies. And so they are regulated by the government. Their right to exist exists because the government grants it as exempt monopolies. And their TV deals and so forth are also supposedly regulated, including like the days that the NFL can produce NFL games is regulated by government.

Anna

00:16:00 - 00:16:01

Wow.

Jordan

00:16:01 - 00:16:11

It's not actually the free market. The government says you can produce for TV games on this day so as not to compete with college football.

Anna

00:16:11 - 00:16:12

Really?

Jordan

00:16:12 - 00:16:59

The government set that out. Yes, it is a law that was passed about what days it can and cannot be on TV. So these are heavily regulated things. And so the government already does that, and it should care about us. People elected should care about us. Ownership is what you'd imagine. People could own it. So famously, the Packers are owned by fans. They are owned— people own shares in the Packers, the Green Bay Packers in Wisconsin. And every team should be like that. Or at least if you are— I think if you are doing things like, you know, it should be— the other thing that happens is leagues allow teams to move. I think there should be more regulation of that. I think if you're thinking about moving a team, it should be that you have to sell it to the fans first. If you own—

Anna

00:16:59 - 00:17:00

Oh, nice.

Jonathan

00:17:00 - 00:17:01

So yeah, like you basically should—

Anna

00:17:01 - 00:17:03

Right of first refusal.

Jonathan

00:17:03 - 00:17:04

Exactly.

Jordan

00:17:04 - 00:17:10

Right before the first refusal. Yes. Yeah. So I just think there's a lot of— I think there's a lot of—

Anna

00:17:10 - 00:17:12

Band Opportunity to Purchase Act.

Jonathan

00:17:12 - 00:17:14

Exactly. BOPA.

Jordan

00:17:14 - 00:17:30

BOPA. Yeah. And the other, for people who enjoy women's sports, there is a league, a really fantastic league, Unrivaled. The 3-on-3 women's basketball league is owned by the players, 100% owned by the players.

Anna

00:17:30 - 00:17:30

Amazing.

Jordan

00:17:30 - 00:17:35

So the players play, they get the money back. So the money they generate, they get it.

Anna

00:17:35 - 00:17:43

Well, and that's good, like, incentive because they want to win, right? That really lends itself toward them wanting to win the games.

Jonathan

00:17:43 - 00:18:59

Yeah, because I feel like when you don't have— when you have that clear investment right there, it also probably helps mitigate some of the corruption that can be in attendance with the rise of sports betting. Oh my God. Because if you as a team own the team, right? Your success is with it, is very much so connected to the team's success. And it takes away like the corrosive rise of sports betting, which I think is like a— I think it's disgusting how many states embrace that fully because it's just a corrupt market with a bunch of negative downstream effects. The other thing I was going to comment when you were doing— Jordan, when you were talking about like streaming services, etc. The thing that's always wild is whenever you have, like, the way in which we've— we're, like, basically recreating cable television, but in a cutesy way. When it's like, when you have combo streaming packages, or it's like if you have to pay money to all of these different streaming providers and you string it together, and it's like we're just creating a more expensive way of having cable TV. Than we did in the past. And it's just that's just designed for the companies to profit more from it.

Anna

00:18:59 - 00:19:00

Yeah.

Jordan

00:19:00 - 00:19:40

Yeah. And, and I think it's, you know, I don't know, I like come to my— I have a whole other thing about the fact that, like, the fact that they pushed us all to streaming and they are only making 30% of the revenue that they made when we were all on cable is like proof to me what I say all the time, which is that we, we talk about these people as if they want to make money. But they're actually really bad at making money because they don't know us. They don't care about us. They don't care about our lives. And they actually— they make decisions not based on making money. They make decisions based on what other people they golf with do. And they all follow the lead and nobody thinks about, is this actually good or worth it?

Jonathan

00:19:40 - 00:19:53

As well as I would say, not only is there that kind of just general, like, follow the leader bandwagoning element of it, is that in so many cases, the goal is not profitability. The goal is control of a market.

Jordan

00:19:53 - 00:19:56

Right. And yeah, well said.

Jonathan

00:19:56 - 00:20:36

And that because that's, that's the Amazon model. Yep. Right. That, that's what Uber, like companies like Uber do. Exactly. Walmart, where the goal is your long-term vision is to completely run everybody else out. Yep. And have controlled the market share. With a promise to your investors that that will eventually happen and you can recoup the money when you control the whole thing. It's also— this is again far afield from this, but that's why I always think about how like so much of the Uber/Lyft business model is dependent on the promise of self-driving cars in the future, where the only way for them to truly be profitable is if you cut out labor costs entirely.

Anna

00:20:36 - 00:20:37

Yep.

Jordan

00:20:39 - 00:21:54

Yep. Yep. And so I think, you know, what's really important is that, like, as— so this, this started not with the Jaylen Brown. We were talking about this beforehand behind the scenes. It was because I was having trouble watching the WNBA. Like, the WNBA should be easy to watch, but I can't watch. I couldn't watch it because my streaming service didn't have a deal with NBC Sports Local 10. And so then I couldn't watch the Connecticut Sun. which also got sold off by the league. Um, and they're moving to Houston to, um, be owned by somebody who's a literal, um, racist, sexist, and, and LGBTQ, um, you know, person, a hate-filled person, um, to own the team, which is fun. I think a women's sports team should be owned by somebody who hates all their players. That makes sense to me. Um, but yeah, totally, you know, um, a Trump-supporting terrible human, um, ambassador at the moment. So like, they got sold off. So I can't watch the Connecticut Suns last season easily. And then if I want to watch a game, I have to figure out where it is. I can't find it. I'm just like, I own— so I pay for a subscription to WNBA, which used to be the way I'd watch. One subscription and the players got, I think, 30% of every dollar I spent.

Jonathan

00:21:54 - 00:21:54

Wow.

Jordan

00:21:54 - 00:22:26

So I gave the league money and the players got money directly for that thing. Now, most of those games aren't even on the service I pay for. And I have to find it someplace else. And maybe I have that service. Maybe I don't. Maybe I catch a game. Maybe I don't. So this all started from me being frustrated and being excited about Tammy Baldwin's bill. And then the Jaylen Brown thing happened. And I was like, oh, this is like proof of concept. This is exactly what we're talking about. And I think for those of you who are just like, oh, well, this, like, whatever, this is going to come for whatever you care. Like, if you— like, whatever you care about— I don't care about sports.

Anna

00:22:26 - 00:22:26

Right.

Jordan

00:22:26 - 00:22:55

Yeah. This is coming for you. Like, private equity is— like, it's not enough to nibble at the edges of this. We need to regulate private equity mostly out of existence, but certainly into some confines of some rules. Because the fact that they own— they, um, uh, there was recently a report that they bought up the software that volunteer firefighters use and jacked up the prices from $500 to $2,000 to $5,000.

Anna

00:22:55 - 00:22:55

Oh my God.

Jordan

00:22:55 - 00:23:04

So a hundredfold thing. for volunteer firefighters around the country, which is 60%, I think, or more of all firefighters are volunteers.

Anna

00:23:05 - 00:23:12

So, you know, just imagine the guy who thought that up and he's like laughing all the way to the bank and thinking what a great dude he is.

Jordan

00:23:12 - 00:23:47

Yeah. Yeah. And so it's like, you know, they own— they don't own hospitals, but they own emergency rooms. The place that should be the most regulated they own are more of. Right. So Private equity is finding avenues to take collectivized money, to borrow heavily to buy it, and then to— and to make that service worse for us so that it can take more money out of our pockets and put it into their pockets. And it's coming for all of the sports teams. So you're going to have this weird thing where sports teams aren't owned by anybody and aren't trying to win.

Anna

00:23:47 - 00:23:48

Yeah.

Jordan

00:23:50 - 00:24:36

And hoping that you will do what we've done with Google or with Apple or with other products, which is just stomach it. Like, just stomach it. Like, you'll just stomach it and just like, oh, whatever. Like, there's nothing you could do. It's inevitable. We'll just like stomach the terribleness. That's what they're hoping. They're hoping that you will be okay with a Celtics team that doesn't try to win championships and that you'll still buy the Celtics merch. You'll still buy the jersey. You'll still get excited. You'll still go to the Garden. You'll still try to spend $45 for one beer. That's what they're hoping. But we could— and if it's up to us alone, it's not going to work. We need legislators to step in. We need legislators to step in and say enough is enough.

Anna

00:24:36 - 00:24:36

Yep.

Jordan

00:24:36 - 00:24:56

Not bemoan, not talk about it like it's sad, like they're all doing. Oh, isn't it sad that this thing happened? Do something. Do something about it. You can regulate them. You are not powerless. Private equity does not exist to exist. It exists through the laws. Make laws so it can't do what it's doing.

Anna

00:24:56 - 00:25:07

Absolutely. Well, that was a fire hose of sports for me.

Jonathan

00:25:10 - 00:25:12

Speaking of paying money for things—

Anna

00:25:12 - 00:25:18

Hey! You want to do it today, Jonathan?

Jordan

00:25:18 - 00:25:19

Yeah, you can do it.

Anna

00:25:19 - 00:25:57

Oh, we appreciate all of our donors so much. Some folks have given us, uh, you know, hundreds of dollars. Some folks just put in the price of a cup of coffee. Um, whoever you are, you're out there listening, um, there's a link below. You can just go boink, hit that link, donate some money to us, make sure that information like this, but also all the great interviews that we do get out and into the ears of progressives across the state. I will say, I believe we are in a very exciting moment for progressives generally. There's some progressive feelings on the rise across the country.

Jordan

00:25:57 - 00:25:58

Exactly.

Anna

00:25:58 - 00:26:33

And I am feeling hopeful, and we are one of the few media outlets Mm-hmm. Where you can expect to hear the real news of things that you may not hear anywhere else here in Massachusetts. So donate to the show. None of it goes to us. All goes to our lovely young people who help us with the editing and the music and all of those other things. And on that note, I think I will go to each of you for a final word on the terribleness of corporate ownership of sports. Do you want to start?

Jordan

00:26:33 - 00:27:57

Oh, yes. I have a statement that my wife, who is— I've heard nothing else except about this, about Brown, about this. So she said to just remember that the Jrue and Lauren Holiday Fund released a statement and a photo with Brown that said, with their jerseys changed, but our commitment to Boston stays the same. So Jaylen Brown and Jrue Holiday and Lauren Holiday have They have funds, they have nonprofits that do genuinely really great work in the community. The thing that's so disappointing about this for a lot of sports fans isn't just because of the stupidity of hurting the Celtics, but Jaylen Brown was just an absolute— he just brought so much Black joy. He cares deeply about people in the community. He has invested really smart ways in trying to build up the Black community in Boston, and not just the Black community. He's really helped young people. His fund has done some really great stuff thinking about supporting young people, people at the margins, people who need a little leg up. And so he wasn't just a rich guy who played basketball, which some of them are, some of the players are. He was somebody who really wanted Boston to be a better place. So his nonprofit's still doing great work. You know, so just like if you, if you are in an opportunity to support it, it's a nice way to say goodbye. And thanks for the good work.

Jonathan

00:27:57 - 00:28:09

Yeah. I'll make my parting comment that private equity is a scam. It should be regulated out of existence. Any campaigns that are largely funded by private equity are probably also scams.

Anna

00:28:09 - 00:28:40

And, and mine is really, I think I already said everything that I'm gonna say, but I'll say it again. I'll say late-stage capitalism. sucks. They're coming for everything we care about, everything. And this sports thing is just the latest. And, you know, it really is an opportunity because once they come for your sports, people get pissed. And if people are pissed, then they're going to start voting, we hope, for the lefties, right? The lefties.

Jordan

00:28:40 - 00:28:46

They're going to vote for the politicians who want to do something about it. So it's an opportunity for people to pick up an issue.

Anna

00:28:46 - 00:29:12

Yeah, and it's an opportunity. I'm going to say this to all those out there who may be in elected office or thinking about being in elected office. It's time to be bold, right? It's time to stick to your guns. It's time to not take the corporate money, to like be aware of the winds, the way the winds are blowing. And the winds are blowing toward the folks who do not take that money, are going to do what is best for the vast majority of people and not for the wealthy and the rich and powerful.

Jordan

00:29:12 - 00:29:13

Yeah.

Anna

00:29:13 - 00:29:33

So, if you're in a position of power, if you're thinking of being in a position of power, you will do well to follow in the footsteps of those folks recently who have been on a winning streak. So, all right, gang, this has been a fun one. We love when Jordan is the expert because that never happens.

Jordan

00:29:33 - 00:29:38

Sports.

Anna

00:29:40 - 00:29:45

Boards. And, and we look very much forward to talking with you all next week. Ciao.